OL: more on Martyrs

Classmate 3:
Hmm, tough question. I guess it would depend on the person's sense of belonging. If the person felt like they had a secure place back home and were somewhat happy there, it may be hard for them to make the decision to become a martyr. If they didn't feel like they belonged and felt that the only thing they had was their religion, then the decision would be easy for them. In truth, what it really comes down to is a person's list of priorities. If thought of like a pie chart, then the biggest section would be the part that wins in the decision making process. The other parts may have some sway, but in the end the majority would win. If God was the biggest slice in that pie chart, then He will win. If may be harder for the person to decide in favor of God if they also have larger slices in the pie voting for a different decision to be made.

OL: Martyrdom

ME:
In the preface of Pocket: History of the Church, Bingham states that we will only find selections from church history that he believes to be important to Christianity in the twenty-first century. Later, in chapter one he talks about martyrdom. It seems that he believes martyrdom is one of the more important happenings in Christianity. Also, Bingham seems to believe that martyrdom is the ultimate sacrifice and most honorable things one can do. Is martyrdom really one of the most honorable things a person can do in their faith. I find that it's harder to live for Christ than to die for Christ. It's real easy to just let somebody behead you or shoot you, and then you get to go party it up with Jesus in heaven. However, to live for Christ, to face persecution, challenges and struggles all in the name of Jesus to share God's great news- now that's honorable. I don't want to belittle martyrdom by any means, but I just don't agree with what seems to be Bingham's view that martyrdom is the ultimate sacrifice.


Jesus came to us to be an example of how we are live our lives for God, and then to die on a cross for our sins. I do believe this, but I fear some Christians confuse the understanding that it is how Jesus lived that we are to do like wise, not how He died. If we are to die as Jesus did then I feel we are missing the whole point of Jesus' purpose.

From my understanding, all sin is equal in God's eyes and same with good works. To God, murdering is tantamount to lying, just as, martyrdom is tantamount to feeding the homeless.

So dying in the name of God doesn't give a martyr any more favor with the Lord than the one time when a little boy gave his morning muffin to a hungry homeless man.

To die like Jesus died to be worthy of a place in heaven, is like saying that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross wasn't good enough or not necessary. He died a most terrible death so we wouldn't have to, so we could be forgiven of our sinful nature. By saying that being martyrs is the way to go; then that's like saying "Thanks, but no thanks" to Jesus "I'll pay my own debt," a debt that is too big and cannot be done on our own.
 
 
Professor:
In this instance, I don't think that Bingham was recommending we all go out and get killed. When he describes Martyrdom as the "ultimate" sacrifice, he only means that there is simply nothing additional that can be offered when a Christian gives his/her life. It is the ultimate because it is final - it is to give all. And in the context of the early church, it was probably necessary. If the martyrs had not done what they did, Christianity may not have survived. These martyrs showed Christians and pagans that they did not have to fear death - they could go on living in faith in spite of great persecution, and their faith made the church famous and made it grow. Between the 1st and the 4th centuries, the Christian church grew from about 1,000 members to over 30 million. And all of this occurred in the context of great persecution and martyrdom. The martyrs were the examples that made people believe Christianity must be true. It is very paradoxical.


However, you are right to suggest that we should not celebrate martyrdom. It seems that some Christians were so ready to die that the church had to make guidelines for martyrdom. Christians were forbidden from seeking it out and celebrating it. They should only give their lives if they were forced to do so because they were being asked to deny their faith.

I'm curious about what others of you think about Elizabeth's post above. Would it be easy to die for the faith? If you were taken before a judge and offered the chance to go free - to go back to your home and family - if only you would say a simple prayer to a pagan God, would you choose to be thrown to the lions instead?


Classmate 1:
As for martyrdom, I think Elizabeth has some good insight. I agree with what Elizabeth said about how it is hard to live for Christ and undergo the persecution and struggles that come along with it; sometimes it seems like dying for Christ would be easier because it would put us out of our persecution and take us to heaven to be with Christ. At the same time, I don’t agree that martyrdom is easier because to be a martyr, this most likely means that you have already been living for Christ and have been suffering persecution, etc. to even be put in such a situation. We wouldn’t become a martyr for Christ (at least in most circumstances) if we weren’t already living for Christ and standing up for what we believe. In this regard, I believe that dying for Christ is the ultimate sacrifice, but we should not be going out in search of becoming a martyr as Dr. Hollan said. When the focus shifts from “I want to live for Christ” to “I want to become a martyr for Christ,” it shows that our perspective is not where it should be. Martyrdom is a very honorable thing but should not be sought out. Instead we should live for Christ and be willing to die for Him if put in a situation where we are given the options of either denying our faith and living or dying for our faith.

Classmate 2:
As for martyrdom, I agree with Elizabeth. If one has to die for his or her faith, then so it be, but I do not think one should be as willing to die as perhaps Polycarp, Perpetua, or maybe Ignatius. If we were all to become martyrs, who would actively spread the news of Jesus Christ?


What do you think? I'd enjoy hearing what you think or feel about the subject. Feel free to post your thoughts and comments :)

Have a fabulous day!

Online Learning (OL)

Okay, so I am taking a class online this month to squeeze all of my credits it to graduate spring 2011. I'm taking Introduction to Theology (again). Yes, I say again because I failed it the first time I took it in the fall of 2009. At first when I discovered that I had failed the class and would have to take it again in order to graduate, I was upset. I have to take a class that I didn't like very much a second time, I'd have to pay for it a second time, and it messed up my four year plan to graduation. Although, having to take this class again did cost more money than I wanted to spend for my education, and it did kind of through my class schedule of balance, it didn't totally ruin my four year plan to graduate like I had thought it would. And, I actually like the class this time. I like the professor (I wasn't too fond of the professor I had the first time I took the class), I like our selection of books we are to read (so far), and it's online (which could be a positive or a negative component for me- I have decided yet).

So anyway...I am learning quite a bit and it's only the second day of class. I thought I'd post some of the, what I think, are interesting thoughts from class. Some of these thoughts will be my own, while others will be from my classmates and professor. I will of course make note of thoughts and what not that is not my own and all that jazz. After all, I wouldn't want credit to not be given where credit is due.

P.s. Something I've learned from this experience is to asj yourself "what can I learn from this" and/or "where shall I go from here."

LD = long distance

Okay, so I know I chose to be a part of this relationship. I know I knew what I was getting into, and I know I knew the chances of this being long distance. But seriously, it's getting so old. I love that having a long distance relationship has enabled us to focus on all the different areas of our dating relationship with little (very little) focus on the physical area of our relationship. I love that having a long distance relationship has enabled us to be creative in our relationship and how we show appreciation for one another.
But him being home only 4 times (fall break, thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter) within 10 months (August through May)- UGH! It's getting SO HARD! Sometimes, I feel there are so many things in each others lives we're missing out on, and so many times when I just want him here to see his face, hear his voice, and feel his strong hug.
I find myself getting annoyed when I over hear some girl talking about how much she misses her boyfriend because she hasn't seen him in like a week or just a few days, when I haven't seen my boyfriend in several weeks, months.
I have learned appreciation though for the girlfriends and wives of those who are over sees. Because they are also experiencing the bummers of a long distance relationship, except they actually have it a little worse. They not only miss their men, they worry all night and day if they'll return home safe, injured, or even alive.

...long distance...well, we've made it through two years of long distance and we only have an estimated year and a half left of long distance- although, i have no clue what the future holds-
i think we can be strong and make it another year and a half or so, though i'm sure it's going to be hard.

Dear June 9th, please come soon. Thanks, me <3

Touched by an Angel by Maya Angelou

We, unaccustomed to courage


exiles from delight

live coiled in shells of loneliness

until love leaves its high holy temple

and comes into our sight

to liberate us into life.



Love arrives

and in its train come ecstasies

old memories of pleasure

ancient histories of pain.

Yet if we are bold,

love strikes away the chains of fear

from our souls.



We are weaned from our timidity

In the flush of love's light

we dare be brave

And suddenly we see

that love costs all we are

and will ever be.

Yet it is only love

which sets us free.

A Dream Within A Dream by Edgar Allan Poe

Take this kiss upon the brow!

And, in parting from you now,

Thus much let me avow--

You are not wrong, who deem

That my days have been a dream;

Yet if hope has flown away

In a night, or in a day,

In a vision, or in none,

Is it therefore the less gone?

All that we see or seem

Is but a dream within a dream.



I stand amid the roar

Of a surf-tormented shore,

And I hold within my hand

Grains of the golden sand--

How few! yet how they creep

Through my fingers to the deep,

While I weep--while I weep!

O God! can I not grasp

Them with a tighter clasp?

O God! can I not save

One from the pitiless wave?

Is all that we see or seem

But a dream within a dream?

Phenomenal Women by Maya Angelou

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.


I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size

But when I start to tell them,

They think I'm telling lies.

I say,

It's in the reach of my arms

The span of my hips,

The stride of my step,

The curl of my lips.

I'm a woman

Phenomenally.

Phenomenal woman,

That's me.



I walk into a room

Just as cool as you please,

And to a man,

The fellows stand or

Fall down on their knees.

Then they swarm around me,

A hive of honey bees.

I say,

It's the fire in my eyes,

And the flash of my teeth,

The swing in my waist,

And the joy in my feet.

I'm a woman

Phenomenally.

Phenomenal woman,

That's me.



Men themselves have wondered

What they see in me.

They try so much

But they can't touch

My inner mystery.

When I try to show them

They say they still can't see.

I say,

It's in the arch of my back,

The sun of my smile,

The ride of my breasts,

The grace of my style.

I'm a woman



Phenomenally.

Phenomenal woman,

That's me.



Now you understand

Just why my head's not bowed.

I don't shout or jump about

Or have to talk real loud.

When you see me passing

It ought to make you proud.

I say,

It's in the click of my heels,

The bend of my hair,

the palm of my hand,

The need of my care,

'Cause I'm a woman

Phenomenally.

Phenomenal woman,

That's me.